Curse

Tutis Evito · Jun 10, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

ok,

A prominet guild member of mine came up with a tested theroy which i am skeptical about.

There theroy follows:

Quote:

The 5-1-2 Hero Build!

5-1-2 stands for 5 Active skills, 1 Res Sig, 2 Disabled Skills.

Just looking through Wiki at all the bosses in the game, you will notice that no mob in the game has more than 5 skills (there are very few exceptions.) This is because the AI of the game just doesn't understand correctly how to use many more than this.

So, I transfered this theroy to my heroes and honestly, they will out perform 80% of players in the game.

Here is the explaination of the build formula and examples of builds I use following:

1) 5 Active skills: Heroes should be glorified henchmen in that they should run themselves effectively. By only giving heroes 5 active skills, they will focus at the job you assign them to. NOTE: The heroes tend to use skills in priority from Slot 1 to Slot 8 on the skill bar. So, place your skills in the order you preferred them used with slot 1 being the most important and 5 being the least.

2) 1 Res Sig: Computer run players are the quickest to activate a Res Sig after a death and they should never use any other Res during battle.

3) 2 Disabled Skills: This is where you put support or expensive spells that you want your hero to be capable of using but only when you tell it to. There are many effective skills that are good in the disabled position. (See Below)

Like i said i am skeptical about weather this is more effective than a full bar, in many cases he recommends just 5 skills

eg Monk

Mo : Healer
Healing Prayers / Divine Favor
Word of Healing*, Dwyana's Kiss, Orison of Healing, Signet of Rejuvenation, Healing Breeze

Discuss!

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 10, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

[skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Karei's Healing Circle[/skill]

Put those skills on a hero bar - they're used randomly so I really doubt the order matters.

By putting only 5 skills on a hero bar, you're basically turning them into a henchman, which isn't good. The reason AI often has only 5 skills is probably to keep PvE easy. Anet makes up for their lack of skills by giving them:

- Crazy-high attributes
- Occasional double damage
- Natural resistance
- Immune to certain conditions
- KD-immune
- Stupid high-damage wand attacks
- Unusually high armor
- High hp

...And making them come in big numbers. Of course that doesn't apply to all mobs, they're just examples.

There's really no reason to give a hero only 5 skills. As for that monk bar, here's something you're missing out on: add Divine Spirit, some other long-recharging Divine favor skill, and then put in Deny Hexes. What do you get? A skill that can remove 3 hexes at once. Do you really wanna miss out on that? It's definitely not the best way to make use of those last 3 slots, but that's just an example.

Tutis Evito · Jun 10, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

I can give various other suggested 5 skill builds.

SOmething seems missing, 5skills, glorified henchies? And i think i remember that the whole slot 1-8 piority was proven wrong?

All im trying to find out is whats more effective, making a good 8skill bar for my heros, which i have and am currently doing, or start with 5skills.

80% better? Dunno, i guess i may have to test this myself, just looking for some more expert opinions

Sab · Jun 10, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

A well-designed hero bar will make use of all eight skills. Is there a problem with established hero templates, such as hybrid Monks (PS disabled), Cruel Spear Para, Chan/Resto Rit support etc., and how does he plan to improve on these?

Tutis Evito · Jun 10, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

He has produced many various builds for heros. But what im wondering if the 5 skills per hero build is better than a good 8 skill bar, i use your 'sabway' build sab, and never had concerns with it,

Im just looking to see weather anyone else see his reasoning to be feasibale

and to see if that 80% preformance is better.

End · Jun 10, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

[QUOTE=Tutis Evito]
So, I transfered this theroy to my heroes and honestly, they will out perform 80% of players in the game.
[/QUOTE=Tutis Evito]
My thing is Isn't that why heros were made in the first place to avoid having to go with other people. Heros in general are better then 80% of the people out there. But anyway onto the acctually on to the topic. If your hero is only using skill 1-5 on their bar they're looseing 28% of their effectiveness (figureing res sig as skill 8 and not counting it in precentages). I can understand why you would want them not to use certain skills which may have huge energy costs. But then avoid putting those in if you can, and put in something useful.

The Meth · Jun 10, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

IMO, res sigs are a waste on heroes, henchmen bring 2 res signs + hard resses so you should be fine unless you fail often. I do agree on certain classes generally needing disabled skills (think prot spirit, everyone hates when heroes are trying to heal minions with it), but its far from needed. There are a great many hero builds that work fine actively using 8 skills.

So far they only reason you have for making these hero builds is that they outperform 80% of players, but mine out perform at least 95% of players

Also, taking monk heroes is fail, monk henchmen are pretty much the only henchmen in the game who aren't completely crap, better to use heroes for damage.

Richardt · Jun 10, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

While well thought out, I'd have to say that your friends theory is kind of silly.

I've never had any kind of issue with giving my hero buddies a full skill bar. The thing you have to remember with heroes is that they can't do complicated skill chains, and I'm guessing this is where that theory came from.

Heroes do benefit more from a simple skill bar, but that doesn't necessarily mean fewer skills-you just need to examine any skill chains that you have, and if it involves more than 2 skills, don't have any hopes that your hero will deliver.

Chthon · Jun 10, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Well, there is one -- and only one -- situation where 5 skills is better than 8: when you're so bad at making skillbars that you fill them with redundant skills.

"Word of Healing*, Dwyana's Kiss, Orison of Healing, Signet of Rejuvenation, Healing Breeze" is a great example of a bar that could be made better by making it shorter. Orison and Healing Breeze are always going to be inferior WoH and DKiss. And since the recharges on Who and DKiss are fast enough that one will always be recharged, Orison and Healing Breeze do nothing other than give you an opportunity to pick an inferior skill for the same purpose you could use a superior skill for. You'd be better off with "WoH + DKiss + SigOfRejuv" than "Word of Healing*, Dwyana's Kiss, Orison of Healing, Signet of Rejuvenation, Healing Breeze."

Now, does that mean that 5 is better than 8, and 3 is even better than 5? NO! It means that you should use those other 5 slots for skills that serve a different role than spot healing. Put in party healing, condition removal, hex removal, big prot, small prot, and, if you have room (which you shouldn't), rez.

Every build, even hero builds, can, and should, use 8 skills. But they should be directed at multiple purposes, so that the build is robust, rather than redundant, which makes the build weak.